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Author Topic: Difference between Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz and Ghulam ahmad Qadiani...  (Read 18640 times)
jabbar mian
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« on: September 01, 2005, 03:38:53 PM »

bro. Yousafzai98 wrote:  Slaam
            Brother Nikpekhel thanks alot for the link and Jazakallah , I read the link and there is no difference between Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadyani and Pervez , both are same Quadyanies. there is no doubt about that .full stop. discussion about them is over .

        This topic was about some thing else , now come to the point or I will merge this topic with another in Islam section undr the thread " Are quadyanies kafir? " .

              Sorry if i have hurted some one in anyway but its discussion and in relegious discussion emotions run high , once again sorry if some one hurted .

    To Brother Jabbar Mian: I respect your intellectual thinking and your love for Islam and Pakistan .        

                  May Allah guide us on right path .amin

                                                              Yousafzai  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assallam o alaikum every one

Pervaiz and Mirza Ahmad of Qadian are two different personalities...I realize ...that we don,t know much about them...

Just because some Mullahs declare them kafirs is not the answer...Ostrich approach ( burying head in sand like shutar Murgh) will not help either....

What is the solution for the present ailment of Muslim Ummah...Huh

If belief in Mahdi and Maseeh is true than where is he.....Huh? ahadiths say that Mahdi had to appear approx hundred years ago...

No personal attacks please ..stick to the topic..speak if you have to share something concrete and knowledgeable....otherwise practice to stay quiet...causing distractions and wastage of energy on personal and emotional remarks is just a wastage of time...

Cut and paste is ok...but we share here our own understanding of these issues...

wassallam

« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 03:46:31 PM by jabbar mian » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2005, 04:02:55 PM »

Pervaiz and Mirza Ahmad of Qadian are two different personalities...I realize ...that we don,t know much about them...

Just because some Mullahs declare them kafirs is not the answer...Ostrich approach ( burying head in sand like shutar Murgh) will not help either....

What is the solution for the present ailment of Muslim Ummah...Huh

If belief in Mahdi and Maseeh is true than where is he.....Huh? ahadiths say that Mahdi had to appear approx hundred years ago...

No personal attacks please ..stick to the topic..speak if you have to share something concrete and knowledgeable....otherwise practice to stay quiet...causing distractions and wastage of energy on personal and emotional remarks is just a wastage of time...

Cut and paste is ok...but we share here our own understanding of these issues...

wassallam


yes we have established who they both are,we can answer your question about the mahdi and then you can tell us from which source u got this 100 years from?but dont already give us a lead to take everything in another direction even before we have started or tell us to keep quiet! and dig our heads in the ground! its you who is causing distractions and wasting energy into useless issues dont you know that islam has been completed yet and all you have to is learn it and not understand it the way our own stupid brain thinks so,back to the point do you now disassocciate your self from ghulam ahmad parwaiz or not now that we all know who he is?
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« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2005, 04:08:14 PM »

Assalam-o-Alikuim brothers,

 i make du'a that may Allah sub'ha nah ho wa tallah show them the right path wid the whole muslim-e-ummah n may Allah (swt) guide us n give us wisdom in order to distinguish b/w rite n rong.
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jabbar mian
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« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2005, 04:12:46 PM »

Nikpehkhel you have nothing to do with my personal life and my beliefs...it is non of your business if I associate myself with Pervaiz, or a non-muslim Shakespeare,....or a non muslim Newton....

Stop harrassing me, or becoming my boss..you don,t know about any thing....except cut and paste...one of your kaliwal sent me an e-mail that you went to UK with a tablighi jumaat and refused to come back...so tell us why you associate yourself with "angrez', before you disect my association with Pervaiz...I don,t share a land or jumaat with you...so just mind your own business...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 04:16:32 PM by jabbar mian » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2005, 06:46:11 PM »

bro. Yousafzai98 wrote:  Slaam
            Brother Nikpekhel thanks alot for the link and Jazakallah , I read the link and there is no difference between Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadyani and Pervez , both are same Quadyanies. there is no doubt about that .full stop. discussion about them is over .

        This topic was about some thing else , now come to the point or I will merge this topic with another in Islam section undr the thread " Are quadyanies kafir? " .

              Sorry if i have hurted some one in anyway but its discussion and in relegious discussion emotions run high , once again sorry if some one hurted .

    To Brother Jabbar Mian: I respect your intellectual thinking and your love for Islam and Pakistan .        

                  May Allah guide us on right path .amin

                                                              Yousafzai  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assallam o alaikum every one

Pervaiz and Mirza Ahmad of Qadian are two different personalities...I realize ...that we don,t know much about them...

Just because some Mullahs declare them kafirs is not the answer...Ostrich approach ( burying head in sand like shutar Murgh) will not help either....

What is the solution for the present ailment of Muslim Ummah...Huh

If belief in Mahdi and Maseeh is true than where is he.....Huh? ahadiths say that Mahdi had to appear approx hundred years ago...

No personal attacks please ..stick to the topic..speak if you have to share something concrete and knowledgeable....otherwise practice to stay quiet...causing distractions and wastage of energy on personal and emotional remarks is just a wastage of time...

Cut and paste is ok...but we share here our own understanding of these issues...

wassallam




Jabbar Mian, I'll be the last person to judge you or anyone here. As far as I am concerned, you can worship the Tuscan Sun and you will still be my human brother. To be honest with you, I find some of your posts entertaining. Having said that, we do disagree on some major issues when it comes to religion and politics and I think that's OK.

Believe it or not, I don't hate you. I enjoy our discussions here even if things get pretty nasty at times. I share your concern about corruption, environment, poverty, etc. in Pashtoon Land, Punjab, Sindh, Baluchistan. I hope you are doing something about it even if it's spreading awareness.

I don't hate Punjabis or any other Hindko speaking people, as a matter of fact, I have some very good friends from both Eastern & Western Punjab . If Punjabi or Hindko happens to be your language then you have nothing to be ashamed of and there is no need to deny it or keep silent about your ethnicity. I don't want to derail this discussion so let me get to the point.

The problem I have with you at times is what you say, how you say it, when you say it that makes one wonder why you say it.

I don't care but the fact remains that Ghulam Ahmad did make a claim of being the Promised Messiah and Mahdi. Now in your above post you write;


"Just because some Mullahs declare them kafirs is not the answer...Ostrich approach ( burying head in sand like shutar Murgh) will not help either...."

"If belief in Mahdi and Maseeh is true than where is he.....Huh? ahadiths say that Mahdi had to appear approx hundred years ago..."



"No personal attacks please ..stick to the topic..speak if you have to share something concrete and knowledgeable....otherwise practice to stay quiet...causing distractions and wastage of energy on personal and emotional remarks is just a wastage of time...

Cut and paste is ok...but we share here our own understanding of these issues..."






« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 06:48:33 PM by Qudratullah Kakaji » Logged
Qudratullah Kakaji
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« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2005, 06:50:36 PM »

Now let's look at some of your previous posts from the past;



Jabbar Mian writes:


Re:Are Qadyani's Kafir?
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2004, 04:54:01 PM »    

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
assallam o alaikum

I don,t understand Qadiani/ ahmadi mentality and their aggressiveness .....and I don,t understand that why they try to become "thekay-dars" or sole contractors of Islamic world...??

I read books of Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz...and I recommend others to read his ideology..

Ghulam Ahmad pervaiz denied the whole issue of Jesus being alive ...and according to him ...holy Quran is silent about it....Qadianis are using some "za-eef" ahadiths to support the prophethood of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian (India)...

According to Pervaiz...this concept of Imam Mahdi is a new concept ...and it was introduced by Shia sect of Islam....

According to Pervaiz...Islam is a complete religion...and Holy Quran is available for our guidance...and every Muslim is a "khalifa" or assistant of God on this earth....and Muslims have to solve their own problems ...and they have to give up laziness ...and they have to give up this belief that some body will come from heavens and solve their problems...

He believes in "himat e mardaan...madad e khudda.." ( God help those who help them selves....)

Islam is a complete religion...with one God...One Book...and one prophet known as Mohammad (pbuh)...

I personally think that views of Pervaiz and Illama Iqbal are very realistic..and they are very close to western Ideology that every citizen of state has to be educated ..and every citizen has to be responsible for the smooth operation of life on this earth..I believe Holy Quran is very clear about that...

wassallam
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 07:21:55 PM by Qudratullah Kakaji » Logged
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« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2005, 06:52:12 PM »

 Jabbar Mian Writes;  

General Discussions / Islam / Analysis of Qadiani/Ahmadi Psyche   on: July 12, 2004, 03:59:47 PM  


Assallam o alaikum

I have certain observations about Qadianis or Ahmadis and their connections with the Western world.

1- just like Bahai,s and Ismailies they are headquartered and protected in the Western world.....why?Huh?

2- They get first preference when it comes to political asylum in the Western world.........why?Huh??

3- They do propaganda against "mullahs" and they black mail Western white nations , and scare them from "jehad" of "Mullah" , ...and in return they get political asylums and financial favours from the Western Nations.....why?Huh?

4- They are attacking the unity of Main stream Muslims by dividing their love and faithfulness with a new prophet Known as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian.,...similarly they have replaced all important pillars of Muslim Ummah with their own innovations.

5- They are registered as "Charities" in the Western world , and they are enjoying full Tax benefits, ....Charities are not allowed to take part in politics ...but Qadianis/Ahamadis fully take part in POLITICS and they use their ethnic votes to get favours from certain politicians of the Western world.....Why?Huh??

6- All over the world including Pakistan.....Charities are required to publish their annual  reports and give details of their financial and political activities.....Qadianis/Ahmadis are not doing it...why?Huh? Digital do you get annual financial report from the bosses of Ahmadi group.Huh??

7- Qadianis are collecting approximately 50 million dollars ( hundreds of crores rupees) a year in donations from their brain washed followers.....where this money is going ??...

8- Qadianis regularly fund institutions like "Amnesty international" , ....80 percent of the income of Amnesty International is being spent on "salaries" and administration and other "hidden" expenses ...why?Huh?

9- Qadianis pretend on the surface that they are well-wishers of Islam and Pakistan...but they always support those forces who try to divide and weaken Muslim Ummah.....why?Huh

10- Qadianis speak against "mullahs" but they themselves have designed the worst kind of dictatorial and autocratic "Mullah-thop" known as "ahmadi-missionaries" ...which is designed exactally on the foot steps of Catholic and Christian Clergy...why?Huh

wassallam
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« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2005, 06:53:27 PM »

Jabbar mian Writes:

 General Discussions / Islam / Re:Munafiqeen   on: July 13, 2004, 03:47:49 PM
 

assallam o alaikum

Please refrain from using these terms like "choping heads" etc...and try to always stay calm and under control.

Don,t give your personal information to any unknown person like "sleepy" Khob etc. , no matter how nice and flaterrer he may look from out side, never trust people like him, ....An American can still be trusted , because of his principles and belief in fairness ( except christian Americans like Bush) , but these poverty stricken sold agents cannot be trusted at any cost.

Try to use pen instead of sword or gun, and ask government of Canada , Germany, UK etc. that why Qadianis/Ahmadis are not publishing and distributing details of their Financial and political activities, and where Qadiani money is going?Huh

Why Qadianis/Ahmadis are allowed to take part in politics and because of various violations of Charity laws,...why their charitable status is not being revoked.Huh?

Ask Government of Pakistan that why Qadianis are allowed to operate their financial business in Rabwah (Punjab) Pakistan, ...and under which law they are allowed to gather money from people,..and why this money is going outside Pakistan?Huh?

Educate ordinary Qadianis that they should ask their "caliph" to give them their due share from his treasury "bait-ul-maal" , and he should share the wealth of 50 million dollars a year with poor and needy Qadianis/Ahmadis......and ordinary and needy Qadianis/Ahmadis should get money from their Caliph instead of western governments.

Be peaceful with Qadianis/Ahmadis but observe their financial and political activities,.... instead of threatening them with violence etc....as these threats of violence from Pakistani Mullahs are actually helping them to get sympathies of ordinary Qadianis/Ahmadis and Western Nations.

wassallam
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Qudratullah Kakaji
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« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2005, 06:54:42 PM »

Jabbar Mian Writes:


General Discussions / Islam / Re:Analysis of Qadiani/Ahmadi Psyche   on: July 14, 2004, 06:31:35 PM  


assallam o alaikum every body

"Digital"  Alak , Why you push other muslims to believe that you truly believe in the finality of prophet Mohammad (pbuh) ..  defensive style of Qadianis/Ahmadis is telling us that they are liars...ask any psychologist and he/she will explain it to you...

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian was a scholar and great Mullah of his times, his tussle with other Mullahs of sub-continent damaged the concept of one God , One book, one prophet and one ummah...and British wanted that "divide and rule" ...and they kept on looting our wealth, self esteem and dignity....

During early 20th century.... Muslims started recovering from long illness and weakness which was caused by Western colonialism and Muslims were facing political , cultural and educational femine.....

There is no doubt that Qadianis/Ahmadis were little bit more organised and cleverer than main stream Muslims...and with the help of "English" guide lines  they opened educational institutions...and the people who qualified from those institutions reached to high ranking posts in Pakistan and rest of the world. ...

Why Ahmadis/Qadianis are selling Abdus Sallam Card..it is too old now....Just because Abdus sallam won a Western Noble prize does not automatically prove Ahmadi/Qadiani beliefs are true...Pakistan and other Muslim world produced lot of other PhD,s and scholars...and Western World and Israeli,s got way more PhD,s and noble prize winners...does it prove that their religious beliefs are also true ??

If Abdus Sallam was a proof of truth of Ahmadi/Qadainis beliefs then Why could not Ahmadis/Qadianis produce more noble prize winners after Abdus Sallam....Huh??

Abdus Sallam himself clarified that his scientific achievements were separate from his religious back ground...

Abdus Sallam was a product of various factors...first of all his father and mother loved him very much and his father trained him for Indian civil service...

then Schools and teachers played important role in his up bringing and education... teachers of Government college Lahore worked hard on him...
and later on Western universities and scientific climate polished him....so why Ahmadis/ Qadiani clergy is trying to take advantage of his purely scientific achievements?Huh

Ahmadis/Qadianis are hurting the self esteem and morale of 1.5 billion Muslims of this world and your ridicule of budding Pashtoon and Muslim youth of this very forum is verifying it..

wassallam
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« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2005, 06:55:54 PM »

Jabbar mian writes:

General Discussions / General / Re:....WHAT IS NEXT ?   on: July 15, 2004, 05:17:42 PM  


Digital Alak and other relatively more clever Qadianis/Ahmadis were dreaming to occupy Pakistan as per desires of their UK lords...and they dreamt to change the whole structure of "mullah,s" Islam .....they also failed bitterly and now they are busy in repairing the huge cracks in their structure....as Qadianis/Ahmadis of western world are producing those cracks.....

and while they are licking their wounds in the religiously cold climates of the west....but their youth is really busy in reaping some free fruits and they like to eat on the streets....

Grapes are sour .....sorry guys ...find real religions and real jobs...let us see what comes next

wassallam
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« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2005, 06:57:06 PM »

Jabbar Mian Writes:

General Discussions / News & Current Affairs / Re:Jesus and Jihad   on: August 12, 2004, 05:18:11 PM  
assallam o alaikum to every body


Digital says that he had been searching the truth for the last 25 years ....finally he found truth in marijuana (charas) ...and he likes saturday night outs with his buddies ....he can be  considered as an excellent example of a typical Qadiani/Ahmadi behaviour.....

Ofcourse their is no body more innovative and deceptive than these Qadianis/Ahmadis ...particularly the ones who deceived the system and landed among their favourite "secular" societies...where they can smoke marijuana and drink alcohol without any fear of Mullah...and they can go out on saturday nights....and on sunday they can confess about their sins ..just like their Catholic masters...and still they think that if they will speak or yell loudly..then it will prove them as righteous and victorious.......

According to holy quran they are not deceiving any body but them selves...

And these worldly benefits and cleverness will fail one day....and they will find that no body likes them...and they will find themselves among the mirages (so-rabs) of the their egos (nafs-e-imara) .....and they will be left all alone among the nations of this world....

wassallam
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« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2005, 07:04:07 PM »

It seems to me that you have changed your stance on this issue. Are you interested in Ahmadis and their ideology now or have already joined them? Your belief is personal but before this discussion can go on, don't you think it would be helpful to enlighten us a bit about what you have learnt within the last few months. Are you trying to suggest Mirza Sahib was Mahdi or there is a possibility of him being a Mahdi? Where is your newly found fasination with Ahmadiyat or their spiritual leaders coming from?  


P.S  I am not Mehmood Khan.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2005, 07:26:12 PM by Qudratullah Kakaji » Logged
jabbar mian
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« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2005, 12:53:41 AM »

I am not follower of either of them,.... Pervaiz denied ahadiths ....to dismiss the claims of Mirza Ahmad of Qadian ..as they were based on Ahadiths only...and he mentioned that holy Quran says nothing about the advent of Messiah and Mahdi...

Pervaiz also dismissed Ahadiths to awaken Muslims as they were doing nothing for themselves and as per ahadiths they were waiting for Mahdi to come and solve their problems miraculously....

Pervaiz condemned Mullahs as they were keeping Ummat e Muslima away from science...and keeping them busy in the dogma and takfeer business....
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« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2005, 01:43:00 AM »

Nikpehkhel you have nothing to do with my personal life and my beliefs...it is non of your business if I associate myself with Pervaiz, or a non-muslim Shakespeare,....or a non muslim Newton....

Stop harrassing me, or becoming my boss..you don,t know about any thing....except cut and paste...one of your kaliwal sent me an e-mail that you went to UK with a tablighi jumaat and refused to come back...so tell us why you associate yourself with "angrez', before you disect my association with Pervaiz...I don,t share a land or jumaat with you...so just mind your own business...

     Salam Brother Jabbar Mian!

 Well i read your posts nothing else was new . yes in one of your post u wrote no personall attack please and here you attacked on Bro Nikpekhel , how strange? anyway i dont have any concern with that just want to point out .

 Now as for as the issue of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadyani and Pervez is concerned, They are both declared kafir , for me there is no more proof needed. and yes you wrote some where else in ur above posts that Quadyani made some Khans of Peshawar and Mardan impressed .

 Sobro if you dont mind please tell me who was that in Mardan as Mardan is my District and I am always there in Mardan so i wanted to know them , They must be some Quadyanies  not Pukhtoons . well if you give me their names i wil figur it out .

 Now about the Mehdi and Jesus , Quadyanies and Pervez always deny that .If you are making a clue that there is nothing in Quran about Mehdi then Please I would love to hear from you where in the Quran its sated that FAJAR prayer is 4 Rakkats ? and detail all about the prayers there are not mentioned in Quran but in Ahadiths .

 So if you want me to tell  you in Ahadihs About the Mehdi and Jesus i will give you the details . Done?

                    May Allah guide us on right path .
                                                                     Yousafzai
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« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2005, 06:34:44 AM »

brother yousufzai this person does not deserve to be moderator,ha.. ha.. ha....  abdul jabara thanks for making me laugh about going with thableegi jamaa'th and then absconding,but i am glad that you do not follow any of these two mentioned otherwise i was going to go further into their beliefs so now  stop here from wasting our time,go and waste time in goandal with the beins or in kamalpoor or in waisa where ever u are from but i dont want u to redicule ulama e haq and stop spreading fasaad and your own pesonal views here,now what was the question about the mahdi that you want to know?
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« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2005, 12:07:34 PM »

Jabbar Mian,

I don’t quite understand your dichotomy. On one hand you say you are not a follower of Qadiani or Parvez and on the other hand you write untiringly lauding and supporting Parvez’s views who the grand Ulema of various different countries unanimously branded Kafir in their fatawa. I don’t have any objection to your being a follower of Qadiani or Parvez however I lament the skeletons you are hiding in the closet and trying to deceit both yourself and others on the forum. I encourage you to be bold enough to speak clearly your heart and I assure you this will earn you immense respect from the Hujra Members irrespective of whether you are a devout muslim, a qadiani, or parvezi…Personally, I feel that you are a good human being but a bit puzzled.
 
Spogmai
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 12:08:28 PM by Spogmai » Logged
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« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2005, 03:45:11 PM »

AOA, bro. Yousafzai98.... I will  try to tell you about Qadiani Khans of Peshawar and Mardan in spare time,THEY ARE TOO MANY...as you are in Pakistan, hence it should not be any problem for you to know about them...

For the rest,... as no body gave any real answer in all of the above posts..same cheap words and shodathoop...., bluffs..and mere talking..no concrete thing to learn..hence none of the above posts are worth replying and wasting time..sorry.....

wassallam
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« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2005, 04:06:41 PM »

Assalamualaikum Dear Brothers and Sister, I came across this wonderful, beautiful and great article about Mr. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani (one of the biggest great and stupid Liar) and thought of posting it here....so Ghulamanay Khatme Nubuvwat enjoy reading:

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiyani, the fonder of Qadiyanism or Ahmadism, so called Ahmadiya Movement in Islam wrote about prophesies of a prophet:

a. The Torah and the Qur'an admit that the most truthful evidence of prophethood are the prophesies, and

b. It is not possible that God's revelations be not confirmed by their fulfillment.

Let us examine the prophesies of the writer who claimed himself to be a prophet (nabi) and the Promised Messiah (al-Masih al-Maw'oud). If a single prophecy is not fulfilled, it would show that such a prophet is an imposter and a liar.

1. Rains and earthquakes:
Ghulam Ahmad wrote, "God revealed to me that frequent rains will come down. Due to their frequency villages will be destroyed. After them will follow severe earthquakes". He did not specify where and when. If it was to be in India, there are some regions which receive a lot of rain and there are other areas which feel earthquakes. This is not a prophecy.

2. Multiple marriages:
On February 20, 1886 Ghulam Ahmad declared that indeed Allah revealed to him that he shall marry blessed women and he shall have numerous children from these new wives. He was then 46 years old. The fact remains that he could not marry anyone after his declared revelation from Allah despite several efforts and a crush on Muhammadi Begum.

3. Marriage to Muhammadi Begum:
Ghulam Ahmad at age 46 had a crush on a young lady by the name of Muhammadi Begum daughter of Ahmad Beg, one of his followers. Ghulam asked her father to marry her to himself which he refused. Ghulam Ahmad announced a prophecy that she will be married to him because Allah had married her to him and no one had power to turn away from that becoming true. He offered bribes of estate and wealth to Ahmad Beg. When it did not work he begged for his pity, brought family pressure and finally made threats. The first prophecy of marriage to Muhammadi Begum failed.

Ahmad Beg did not budge from his position and married his daughter to an ordinary soldier. Ghulam Ahmad prophesied that the husband of Muhammadi Begum would die soon and she would be married to him since their marriage had taken place in the heavens. He fixed a three year period for the death of the soldier husband of his beloved lady. Twenty two years later Ghulam Ahmad died but the soldier lived for another forty years and she lived even longer. The second prophecy of marriage to Muhammadi Begum failed.

4. A spark of the light of God:
A son was born to Ghulam Ahmad on June 14, 1899 when he was 59 years old. He gave him the name, Mubarak Ahmad and declared, "this lad is indeed a spark of the light of God, the promised reformer, the owner of greatness and authority, possessor of healing breath like the Messiah, curer of diseases, a word of God and lucky. He will become famous in the four corners of the world, he will set prisoners free and through him all nations will be blessed".

Allah had His plan to prove once again that Ghulam Ahmad was neither a prophet nor "the Promised Messiah" by showing that He did not reveal anything to him nor inspired him with anything nor chose him a prophet nor divinely guided him (Mehdi). Mubarak Ahmad died of natural causes at age 8 in 1907, less than a year before the death of the false prophet and the false messiah.

5. The birth of another son:
When Ghulam Ahmad's wife became pregnant, he announced on January 1, 1903, "Praise be to Allah Who bestowed upon me in spite of old age four sons and has given me good news of a fifth". On January 28, 1903 his wife delivered a daughter who died in infancy. This was first failed prophecy of a son.

His wife became pregnant again and he prophesied that she will deliver a son about whom he said, "the son of nobility will be born - a lad goodly-shaped and handsome." She delivered a baby girl on June 24, 1904. This was the second failed prophecy of a son.

6. Again a son:
After two disappointments and proving himself to be a false prophet, he announced again that Allah had given him the news, "Verily, We give you tidings of a meek boy." He announced the date of the birth of the boy to be September 16, 1907 which was never fulfilled. This was the third false prophecy of a son.

In October 1907 he pronounced yet another revelation from Allah, "I shall soon bestow upon you a righteous boy" and his name was announced to be Yahya. Alas, the prophesied son never came and the false prophet Ghulam Ahmad himself died on May 26, 1908. This was the fourth false prophecy of a son.

7. A son to one of his followers:
Manzoor Muhammad, one of his followers, informed him that his wife was pregnant. Ghulam Ahmad prophesied cautiously in stages that Manzoor's wife will deliver a boy from this pregnancy or from a later pregnancy and child's name will be "Bashir-ud-Dawla". After such safeguards in his prophecy he emphasized, "Manzoor Muhammad's wife shall not die unless she gives birth to this noble son and until his prophecy is fulfilled".

Manzoor Muhammad's wife delivered a baby girl and afterwards she never conceived and died without giving a boy. Doesn't it look like Ghulam Ahmad was working against Allah's Will?

8. The plague:
Ghulam Ahmad feared plague very much and declared it to be one of his signs. He prophesied that the epidemic then ravaging in the Indian Province of Punjab will not enter his town of Qadiyan because it was the dwelling place of "God's prophet." God proved him a liar again. Plague spread in Qadiyan and in Ghulam Ahmad's own house; his maid and a few of his followers died of plague.

9. The death of Dr. Abdul Hakim:
Dr. Abdul Hakim entered into a discussion with Ghulam Ahmad, challenged him to an open debate and called him a liar. Ghulam Ahmad did not take it very well and prophesied, "Abdul Hakim will die during my life-time as he insults and disgraces me". On May 4, 1907 Dr. Abdul Hakim responded with his own prediction that Ghulam Ahmad will die within fifteen months, that was by August 4, 1908. Ghulam Ahmad responded to Dr. Abdul Hakim's prediction by adding to his own prophecies:
(a) Dr. Abdul Hakim will die during the life-time of Ghulam Ahmad, and,
(b) Ghulam Ahmad will live to be eighty years of age, which was to be 1920 or later.
Ghulam Ahmad died within a year on May 26, 1908, at age 68 and Dr. Abdul Hakim lived for many more years to become an old man.
Ghulam Ahmad's prophecies and self deprecation
On various occasions when he announced a prophecy he would self-deprecate if the prophecy was not fulfilled. A few of his announcements are given below:
1. "If what I have said does not happen exactly, I am prepared for every punishment. My face be blackened and I be insulted. A rope be put round my neck and I be hanged".

2. "Prepare for me a cross if my falsehood is exposed and curse me more than the Satan, the evil and the accursed".

3. Regarding his burning love and lust for Muhammadi Begum, a daughter of one of his followers, he said, "Her marriage (to me) is a settled affair. I swear by God that this is true. They shall not have the power to thwart its occurrence. God Almighty has said, 'We have ourselves married her to you, it is not possible that My words may change' ".

Further, he said, "There is no changing of the Word of Allah. The meaning is that this prophecy of mine is bound to become true as the failure of its fulfillment falsifies the Word of God".

In fact, the Word of God is never falsified but a liar speaking in the name of God is exposed. He further said, "If this prophecy does not turn out to be true I shall be the most evil of the evils, ye fools!" Well! He proved himself what he was.

4. "But if this prophecy is not from Thee, O God, then perish me in disgrace and total loss and make me accursed and peltable in Thy view".

5. "For ascertainment of my truthfulness or my falsehood there is no better thing than my prophesies". Well! We know the truth, don't we?

Allah repeatedly failed Ghulam Ahmad in his prophecies to prove to the world that this man was a liar, an imposter and an inventor of a new religion which was not Islam.

References to the quotations and events mentioned in this brochure may be found in QADIYANIAT, AN ANALYTICAL SURVEY by Ehsan Elahi Zaheer, published by Idara Tarjuman Al-Islam, Shish Mahal Road, Lahore, Pakistan, 1981, Chapter VII, pp.184-226.
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salahudeen ayyubi
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ayyubi pe khaire raaghli


« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2005, 04:12:31 PM »

marwath rora biya pe khair raghli stha dera mehrabani da de post.
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« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2005, 04:14:00 PM »

Pakistani Constitutional Amendments of 1974
Declaring Qadianis as a non-Muslim Minority

by
Dr. Syed Rashid Ali

Events that led to the Constitutional Amendments
declaring Qadianis to be non-Muslim Minorities

Bhutto becomes the Prime Minister

Zulfikar Ali Bhutto became the elected Prime Minister of Pakistan in the election of 1970 and Qadianis hoped to get a good reward for their unflinching support to the Pakistan Peoples Party in this election and for their loyalty to Bhutto. Following elections many PPP MNAs and MPAs visited Rabwah and got good reception at the Qasr-e-Khilafat. Khuddamul Ahmadiyya organised parties and contributed funds for the PPP public meetings. Qadiani students joined PPP led student federations to check the activities of Jamiat-e-Tulaba, the student wing of Jamaat-e-Islami. A powerful group among the bureaucracy and the military extended support to Rabwah to win its favours for future promotions (many high ranking army officers and civil servants belonged to the Jamaat). The leading anti-Qadiani groups and organisations operating in the country were suppressed and their activities curbed to appease Qadianis. Mirza Nasir (3rd Khalifa) was happy over his political bargain. He declared that majority of Muslims had accepted Qadiani point of view over the vital religious issues. In Saeed House Abbottabad, he declared that majority of people had accepted our interpretation on the belief of the death of Jesus Christ and Khatme Nabuwwat (AlFazl Rabwah, 30th June 1972) After an year he claimed that 70-80% people especially the young generation of Pakistan had come to believe that Ahmadis were not non-believers in Khatme Nabuwwat. Like the issue of Jesus' death, the issue of Khatam-i-Nabuwwat would finish in the next five or seven years, he predicted. (AlFazl Rabwah, 28th July 1973)

Oil crisis hit badly the Western world in late 1973 and it was deemed necessary to check any move meant to forge a common front against western powers. In February 1974, Bhutto announced the convening of Islamic Summit in Pakistan. It baffled Rabwah. The leading role of Saudi Arabia in the summit was a red rag to the Qadiani bull. Mirza Tahir says that Saudi King Faisal aspired to be the Khalifa of the Muslim world. Thus the fate of Faisal was sealed. He was murdered by his Americanised nephew. However an Anti Ahmadiyya movement was launched on the eve of Islamic Summit and lot of literature was distributed among the Muslim delegates.

These events created an atmosphere of mistrust between PPP and Rabwah. However they still enjoyed the support of several key figures of the ruling party. Mirza nasir continued to recieve PPP stalwarts in his palace in Rabwah and firmly believed that no harm can ever come to his community. From time to time, he ordered heads of different Ahmadiyya organisations to put up stiff resistance against the attacks of his opponents and preach Ahmadiyya creed in a fearless way. "How could you celebrate the centenary of Ahmadiyyat in a befitting manner if you did not prove your worth," he once advised his followers in a private meeting. All this contributed to the aggressive mood of the community. (Ahmadiyya Movement - British-Jewish Connection by Bashir Ahmad p.405)

The Rabwah Incident

In a bid to show their muscles to their opponents, Qadiani belligerents attacked the students of Nishter Medical College, Multan, when they came back from an excursion trip and passed through Rabwah on 29th May 1974. Qadianis carried sticks and light arms. Fifty students were badly injured with 13 in critical conditions. (Daily Jasarat, Karachi, 31st May 1974). It was a pre-planned affair and Mirza Nasir and Mirza Tahir were behind the game.

Qadiani Goondaism unleashed violent reaction all over Pakistan. Although Hanif Ramay, the Chief Minister of Punjab, issued stern warnings to law breakers yet the demonstrators paid no heed to it. Mr. Justice K A Samdani, a High Court Judge was appointed to hold an inquiry into the Rabwah incident. In the Punjab Assembly the leaders of the opposition moved adjournment motion but the speaker disallowed it on the ground that the matter was subjudice. (Pakistan Times, Rawalpindi, 3 May 1974)

Bhutto appealed to the people to wait for the results of the Tribunal but the movement continued unabetted. The opposition leaders in the National Assembly made stern efforts to move an adjournment motion on Rabwah incident without any success. The assembly devoted most of the time to procedural debate on the admissibility of such a motion. To check the rising movement, many religious and political leaders were arrested under the DPR (Defense of Pakistan Rules) and public meetings declared unlawful. (Daily Kohistan, Lahore, 10 May 1974) The Government used repressive measures to find an excuse to revive 1953 macabre drama to shelve the issue. People bore all hardships with fortitude to carry out the movement in a peaceful manner.

Everyone knew that the man behind the Qadiani goondaism was Mirza Nasir, the Government was however reluctant to arrest him. He filed a petition for bail before arrest in Lahore High Court. He was associated with the investigation into Rabwah incident. (Pakistan Times, Rawalpindi, 7 June 1974)

Samdani Tribunal

Meanwhile Justice Samdani Tribunal was conducting its investigations. The statements of the witnesses who appeared before the Samdani Tribunal appointed to investigate the causes of the Rabwah incident gave an awful picture of Qadiyaniyat hitherto less known to the world. Muhammad Saleh Noor, a Qadiani dissident deposed:

Khuddamul Ahmadiyya is military organisation of Ahmadis. It believes that the Jamaat will soon hold the rein of power.
Qadiani officials are instructed by the Khalifa to manage jobs through all legal or illegal means for Ahmadis.
In Africa, Ghulam Ahmad is projected as a prophet Ahmad.
There existed in Rabwah an organisation called Furqan Force. the witness had been a member of this force and it took part in hostilities in Kashmir in 1947. General Gracey had later disbanded this organisation. The arms and ammunition recieved by Furqan force were sent to Wahga through a military wagon and buried near Mahmud 'Mosque'. Volunteers had been posted to guard the arms and ammunitions.
Ahmadis have a mission in Israel. It is located in Haifa. It is under Tehreek Jadid and Mirza Mahmud was the Chief of that Department. Those who went to Israel from Pakistan had double passports. They went to an African country on a Pakistani passport adn there issued the other passport to go to Israel. The other passport was kept by them secretly. No Jews have been converted to Islam. (Pakistan Times 28 June 1974)
International Propaganda Campaign
At the hieght of mass protests and movement, entire Qadiani propaganda machinery was actively engaged in mustering international support. Mirza Nasir gave interview to Associated Press of America in which he alleged:

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« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2005, 04:17:46 PM »

"I am convinced that due to many reasons Prime Minister Bhutto's PPP has engineered the riots. One reason is that PPP wants to prop up its crumbling prestige by winning over the support of the extremists of other sects."
Sir Zafarullah Khan Qadiani alleged that when their properties were being burnt by rioters, Federal Security Forces stood by as silent spectators. (Daily Jasarat, Karachi, 28 June 1974; B A Rafiq From the World Press)
On the basis of propaganda line given by Mirza Nasir and Qadiani Missions abroad, foreign press ascribed the Rabwah incident to Bhutto and Shah Faisal's policy to 'excommunicate ahmadis'. The Economist stated:

"Several months ago when an Ahmadi was fired as Chief of Staff of Air Force. This said to have turned the Ahmadis against Bhutto and now cited by conspirational minded Pakistan as one of the motivations, the Prime Minister may have had for inciting the riots himself. Another such incentive may have been provided by Pakistan's oil-rich Muslim brother; King Faisal is said to have urged Mr Bhutto at the Islamic Summit in Lahore last February to deal with Ahmadis and even to have made Arab aid contingent on a solution of the Ahmadi problem. A follow up Muslim meeting at Jeddah in March pronounced the Ahmadis non-Muslims, with the Pakistan delegation reluctantly acceding. Pakistan's religious parties have been stepping up anti Ahmadiyya propaganda ever since. " (The Economist London 15 June 1974)
As part of Ahmadiyya malicious propaganda against Pakistan, Sir Zafarullah Khan help a press conference on 5th June 1974 in London. He explained that the present trouble began when about 150 students from Nishtar Medical College at Multan had been passing by train through Rabwah, the headquarters of the community. They shouted slogans and obscenities at Ahmadis. There were similar demonstration by the students when the train returned a week later but this time they were greeted with violent reaction and some of them were hurt. (The Times London 7 June 1974)
Zafarullah Khan invited the attention of International community to the so-called persecution of Ahmadis in the Punjab and appealed to Amnesty INternational, International Red Cross, Human Rights Commission, International Commission of Jurists, public welfare bodies like OXFAM to go to Pakistan and help 'suffering' ahmadis. He wrote to UN Secretary General Kurt Waldhiem to send observers to Pakistan.

Similarly Jamaat Ahmadiyya Missions in US, UK, Nigeria and other countries met high placed Government officials to apprise them of the situation in Pakistan. British MPs expressed their sympathies for Ahmadis victims. Washington Post carried front page article sympathetic to Ahmadis and blatantly insulting to the people of Pakistan and Muslims in general. (Al-Islam USA 30 Sept 1974)

Governemnt of Pakistan deplored the tendency of a section of international press to distort and caricature internal happenings in Pakistan. Pakistan Times in its leading article refuted all absurd charges levelled by Ahmadiyya Missionaries and informed that the Prime Minister Bhutto had talks with delegates of all the interested groups. The son of the religious head of Ahmadiyya was among them who met the Prime Minister. The Provincial governments were kept in touch with the leaders of Ahmadiyya community as well as other groups involved in the controversy. It deplored the malicious propaganda of Ahmadiyya foreign missions and condenmed their anti-Pakistan statements. The paper questioned:

"We are not sure to what extent Pakistan foreign accusers have been influenced by the statements of Mirza Nasir Ahmad and Sir Zafarullah. but it is clear that by lapping up whatever was said by these gentlemen, they acted in fairness neither to them nor to Pakistan. Similarly the worthy spokesmen of Ahmadiyya community have only harmed their own cause by securing for foreign help against their own government and rendered themselves liable to the charge that they care more for their international connections than their loyalty to the land where they have enjoyed extraordinary facillities and privileges. Indeed they are more guilty of sullying the image of their country than their friends abroad." (Pakistan Times 25 June 1974)
Link - an Indian news magazine made following comments on Zafarullah's press conference in London:
"His recent press conference in London to malign the Government of Pakistan in Rabwah incident is part of a bigger scheme. one readily wonders where this Judge of International Court os justice was when Indians massaccred the members of the Muslim minority in more than three thousand communal riots till today.
Zafarullah Khan in his press conference in London said that at least 20 persons were killed in Rabwah and therefore he sought the intervention of Amnesty International and Commision for Human Rights and the International Red Cross. For people in Pakistan, who are in the know of full facts, this was a bolt from the bue and a stab in the back. A gross exaggeration of the whole incident. Zafarullah played well to the tunes of his masters. Let us all try to identify his masters. you will find them in Washington, in London, in Delhi and now most probably willing connivers in Moscow as well." (Link India, 23 june 1974; B A Rafiq, From the World Press, London p.114)

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jabbar mian
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« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2005, 04:20:16 PM »

AOA, Marwat sahib thanks for the effort... we already know that Qadianis are non muslims, and we know about these things which you posted ...this thread was actually about Pervaiz...so I would be grateful if you increase our knowledge about him too....not only why he was declared Kafir ...but what he actually said...and what is our research and answers about his philosophy..Huh

Thanks

wassallam
« Last Edit: September 02, 2005, 04:20:36 PM by jabbar mian » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2005, 04:20:40 PM »


Assalam-O-Alikum bro salahudin ayubi,

   Ja-za-ka-Allah khaira wa akhi for ur compliments. may Allah subhanaho wa talah bless U always wid His mercy n may guide us towards sirat-e-mustaqim. Ameen.

 tasso ror
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« Reply #23 on: September 02, 2005, 04:40:48 PM »

we already know that Qadianis are non muslims,

Assalam-O-Alikum,
 congrets 2 all bros bcoz dis is what v wanted our bro Jabar to utter n confess.

 Dear bro, here is a fatwa abt Ghulam Pervaiz n it was issued by "Jamia Banori Karachi". Here is a link.

http://www.binoria.org/q_a/miscellaneous.html

 please scrol down the site n u'll find da fatwa. But if u can't then for ur convenience i paste tht over here.

Relationship with Followers of Ghulam Ahmed Perwaiz

Ques: One of my cousins studies the books of G.A. Pervaiz very much, and he is impressed and affected from his writings. As such my cousin doesn't believe in the incident of "Ifik" and also says some unrespected words for Hazrat Ayesha (r.a) and some sahabas (r.a). When I meet them, they deliberately want to discuss religion.
Now the question is, what sort of a relationship should I keep with them? Should I attend their funeral etc.? What name should be given to a person who has such beliefs i.e., Zindeek etc??
Ans: One who is the follower of Ghulam Ahmed Perwaiz and does not believe in the incident of Ifik and abuses and calls names to Aeyshah (Radhi Allahu Anha) and other companions of the holy Prophet, is not of Islam and is reverted. Having relationship and/or dealings or going into discussion with such a person by a common man is to be avoided. This type of person is known as one who has reverted in his belief and gone against the religion (Zindeeq & Murtad).
Istifta No. 17535

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« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2005, 05:20:58 PM »


Assalam-O-Alikum, wa'rah ma tullah-e-wa-barak,
 Respectable Bro Jabbar,

    As u need info-pinfo abt Pervaizism then i've got numerous books about these renegades. To great ulema of Islam, both are worst in connection with thier erroneous beliefs n creeds.
it is an undeniable fact that The Ahaadith of Rasulullah ((Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) have been unanimously accepted by the entire Ummah as the source of Islamic Law, after the Noble Quran. In fact, upon pondering, it can be concluded that the entire Ahaadith contain the real essence of Islamic Law (Islamic Shariah) as the Ahaadith comprise of the mubarak words, actions and approvals of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) who has interpreted the Noble Quran and defined its object and purpose. However, it is regrettable that a certain group of people influenced by the corrupt western culture and civilization, have began refuting the Ahaadith.

In the beginning of the twentieth century, when the Western nations dominated over Muslims, many Muslims of poor understanding and little knowledge became overwhelmed by the Western Ideologies and concepts. They opined that progress was impossible without upholding and adopting the western lifestyle. They began propagating this concept among the masses. In order to propagate this concept they distorted all the Islamic teachings that opposed this western culture and ideology. This group was called the modernists. Among the leaders of such groups were people like Sir Sayed and Ahmed Khan of India, Taha Hussain of Egypt and Ziyad Khog of Turkey. It should be borne in mind that the objects and aims of this group could not be achieved without rejecting the Ahaadith because, the Ahaadith contain detailed guidelines to every aspect of life which are totally opposed to western norms and trends.

Consequently, a group among this cult began to negate the Ahaadith and called themselves the "Quranic Group". Sir Sayed and his companion Moulvi Chirag Ali were the founders of this movement in India.

They did not negate the Ahaadith completely, instead they rejected all those that were contrary to their aims and objects and their limited understanding and reasoning even though all these Ahaadith were authentically narrated.

They discreetly propagated that the Ahaadith are not legal Shariah proof in this age and era. This led to the legalising of interest and usury; the rejection of the Prophets, the denial of the Angels, the negation of Purdah and other essentials of Islam, and moreover, legalizing of prohibited things.

Thereafter, Abdullah Chakardalwi formed a group called, Quranic Group and his object was the total rejection of Ahaadith. This concept was further promoted by Aslam Inerajpuri. Finally, Gulam Ahmed Parwez established this erroneous belief among the masses through his influential writings. This fitnah spread widely in his period (era).

Sir Syed Ahmed Khan

Sir Syed wrote his Tafsir of Quran Majid in 6 volumes as follows (see page 335 of the book "Sir Syed Ahmad Khan" by Fazal Karim):

Part 1 in year 1880
Part 2 in year 1882
Part 3 in year 1885
Part 4 in year 1886
Part 5 in year 1892
Part 6 in year 1895

In part no.2, year 1882, in Sura Maida, verse no. 117, Sir Syed layed claim to the death of Hazrat Isa (alayhis salaam).

9 years later in 1891, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani copied Sir Syed in regards to the death of Hazrat Isa (alayhis salaam).

Chakralwi

The Chakraalwis and Parvezis do not have the same person in common, but their concepts are absolutely identical, that being the denial of the Sunna as a form of revelation and accepting its’ primacy alongside the Qur’an. The founders of these two movements are `Abdullah Chakraalwi and Ghulam Ahmad Parvez, respectively. What we would like to do then is to give the reader a short biography first, starting with Mr. Chakraalwi.

Abdullah Chakraalwi was born in Miyanwaali, Punjab in Pakistan. He was the first in that land to reject the authority of ahaadith, referring to them as unacceptable fabrications in the religion. There were many who attempted to bring him back from the depths of evil that he had indulged in, but these pleas ultimately fell on deaf ears.

"Following the sayings and sunnah of the messengers and prophets as against the books of Allah is a very old Mard (Sickness). Opponents of Mohammad the Messenger (Peace be opon him) were surely these followers of hadith. { Tarjummatul-Quran ba Ayaat-ul-Quran page 97 - It has now been translated as "Quran as it Explains it self." }

Parvez

On 9 July 1931, a laymen who would be one of the most ferocious forces of evil against Orthodox Islam would be born in the Punjab province of India. His name was Ghulam Ahmad Parvez. In his youth, he learned Islam at the feet of many great elders in his family, but never became a scholar. In his twenties, he came into contact with Muhammad Iqbal, the nationalist whose poetry led to the foundation of the state of Pakistan and Muhammad Ali Jinnah, the Shi`a lawyer and secularist who would become the first leader of Pakistan.

In the year 1955, he began to write different references and sources regarding the Qur’an, some of which led to the denial of the Sunna of the Messenger of Allah SAW. One of his most famous maxims was that ‘if it does not agree with the Qur’an or the dignity of the Messenger of Allah or humanity, then it must be rejected.’ This famous mantra caused him to go far from the principles of Orthodox Islam and the scholars of Islam condemned him and his ideas. However he would continue on, writing different treatises and papers, denying tenets of faith as well as historical facts that have been established in the Qur’an, Sunna and even secular sources on Islam.

In 1956, he became a member of the Law Commission and unfortunately was also propelled into the position of Chairman of Quranic Education Society and the Director of Quranic Research Centre. It was in this position that be became the most dangerous, writing commentaries on the Qur’an, its’ language and wording and surreptitiously redefining key terms and texts mentioned in the Qur’an by Allah.

On 2 February 1985, Mr. Parvez died. He left behind no issue, but the damage that he did was to last from his life, to his followers until the Day of Resurrection.

Parvez founded the movement Tolu-e-Islam ( Dawn of Islam ). As far as ahaadith are concerned, Tolu-e-Islam considers all those ahaadith as true which are in accordance with the Quran or which do not stain the character of the Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasallam) or his companions (radiAllahu Anhum).

The sailent feature of the Munkar-e-Hadith is that these people encourage to use ones own 'commonsense' in matters of faith and taunt the Ulema of Islam of not doing so. They go as far as to say that due to this they should not even be included amongst the Ahle-Ilm { people of knowledge }. In evidence of this assertion Parvez wrote in his book:
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