Are Qadyani's Kafir?

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[jabbar mian]

abdul jabara the khe ye ke yaw mullah alim? aw da post de weli modify ku? it had proof who you were! you are follower of ghulam ahmad qadyani malu'n!

I guess you forgot to put "chondai" of naswar...which modified post you are talking about...??  do you know the difference between Ghulam Ahmad pervaiz...and Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani...??..your favourite big bearded Mullahs were against the creation of Pakistan...and now they are trying to become masters of Pakistan and Islam...remember there is no Mullahthoop in Islam....If you prove that holy prophet created the post of Mullah then I will become your "shagird" ( disciple)...

wassallam

[Yousafzai98]

I guess you forgot to put "chondai" of naswar...which modified post you are talking about...??  do you know the difference between Ghulam Ahmad pervaiz...and Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani...??..your favourite big bearded Mullahs were against the creation of Pakistan...and now they are trying to become masters of Pakistan and Islam...remember there is no Mullahthoop in Islam....If you prove that holy prophet created the post of Mullah then I will become your "shagird" ( disciple)...

wassallam

          Salam Jabbar Mian and every one.

 First of all i could not expect such rude attitude towards mullah fom you.
 second you insulted Nikpekhel bro that u forgot a "chonday" of Naswar.

 Well Mullah is not just an illetrate person , yes might be he doesn,t have Master degree of Islamic studies from Peshawar University , But he is a learned person who got relegios education from different Madaris in Pakistan and some of them are also affiliated to the Govt recognised Educational Boards of Pakisatn.
 
 You could not call some one stupid and illetate if he is not educated from English School , From wich English School Prophet Muhahammad (PBUH) and his Followers(Sahaba) were passed ? although they had not got education from English School but they were the most Educaed,well mannered and wisest personalities of the human being. so it doesnt matter if Mullah is not educated from English school .

 And you also stated that a Big Beared Mullah , so Brother Jabbar Beared is a sunna of the Prophet an he follows the sunna , so no big deal at all .

 and yes one should not insult Mulla  Because they are the heirs of the Prophets..

 And about the Prophet did not creat the post of Mullah, Its clear that who was Hazrat Bilal ? he was the special "MOAAZIN" .

 and if you say Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) didnot creat the post of mullah so tell me where did the Prophet read taravih pryayers in the mosque ? and we still read taraweeh prayers in the mosque..


 And about the Chonday of Naswar , every nation has some costomary and traditional values like we have naswar   .same if Punjabies forget the a Chonday of PAN we will not mind  .

            At the end , i am sorry if some one has taken it offensively.

                            Best wishes for every one.

                                                           Yousafzai

[Malang Pashtoon]

Gura Sobidar Sb da de Khalku Mulla pa pants shirt au clean shaved yee, Zaka khu pa Geehra pa se khabarey kawee, au modrenly educated and without topae mopae yee, zaka khu warta da da madrasu fazeelan dumra bad khkaree...

Mung khu derta chaghey wahaley che de sardey ke chal dey, khu da khwar mulla maslaa sfura yee..tasu rata ghwag na kekhawdu...ooos derna khlas na shee gurey, che manda warla warkey...nu eela ba de pata oolagegee...

 Satakia 01

   Some one great has said, THE less ONE KNOWS THE BETTER  Not KNowing Is doing NO HARM  Yes I agree with you. ( If that, What You wanted To Hear)
 The QAIDEazam of Pakistans Father name WAS POONGEE NOT PONJAa, but we can still travel India To visit his Daughter VICTORIA to Confirm cant we?? She is alive.

__________________________ K.Khattak __________________________________________

[Pukhtun*]

menam! de yousuzai98 global moderator that was nicely put,i can give him edvidance from the Holy quran and hadith but whats the point he is holding ear of the elephant and thinks thats the whole elephant,if Allah hasnt given any one guidance there is not much we do to convince him,about ghulam ahmad qadiyani or ghulam ahmad pervez well his name was ghulam ahmad pervez and qadyan is a place and so some people refere to him as ahmadi some people refere to him as pervezi and some people refere to him as qadyani,but abdula jabar if you say you do not follow ghulam ahmad pervez qadyani then we will have to take your word for that but Allah only knows whats inside your heart.

[Spogmai]

Nikpekhele,

Ghulam Ahmed Qadyani and Parvez they are two different personalities. No mention about the former, however, the latter is Muslim but many Muslim Scholars call him an astrayed one; others keep silent. But the fact remains that Parvez did play with Quran and distorted its exegeses.

Spogmai

[jabbar mian]

assallam o alaikum every one...

Brother Yousafzai98 Thanks for your guidance, I would like to find out about the history of Mullah and real Islamic scholars ( ulema e haq).....

Nekphikhel called me Kafir and Qadiani....without having any knowledge about Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz....and holy prophet (pbuh) said that any body who calls a Muslim as a Kafir...himself becomes a kafir....

If this is the way ..people want to act here, than I guess it would be wise to stay away from this kind of places....

wassallam

[Pukhtun*]

Abdul jabara everyone know's that qadyani's are kafir and any who follow him as you have disassociated your self from him and made yourself clear that the person you are reffering to is another person and not the mirza ghulam ahmad qadyani then i appologise for the misunderstanding but lets find out who this person pervez is and was he following in the same footsteps of the qadyani as i will have to find out myself i hope spogmai will enlighten us.

[Yousafzai98]

assallam o alaikum every one...

Brother Yousafzai98 Thanks for your guidance, I would like to find out about the history of Mullah and real Islamic scholars ( ulema e haq).....

Nekphikhel called me Kafir and Qadiani....without having any knowledge about Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani and Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz....and holy prophet (pbuh) said that any body who calls a Muslim as a Kafir...himself becomes a kafir....

If this is the way ..people want to act here, than I guess it would be wise to stay away from this kind of places....

wassallam

 Salam

       Respected jabbar Mian .

         Well i would love to learn from you the meaning of Professional Mulla nd Islamic Scholar and Ulema e Haq .

 In our mardan every Mulla is Alim .How u define scholar? and how many scholars in Pakistan nowadays we have ?
 
If you say mulla is not working or running any business etc , and always stays in the mosque .So its not a big deal , if he runs a business  he would not be able to attened the mosque at exact time .

 and about calling some one kafir  Yes its right that no one should call some one kafir , But if some one is kafir Like Quadyanies , as we see in Pakistan Constitution 1973 Its clear that Quadyanies are Non-Muslim Minority , so i think its no big deal to call them kafir , coz they are .

                             Anyway i will be looking forward to your comments and arguments to differnciate Mullah and Ulema e Haq  

                     No offense Bro Jabbar Mian , its just for the sake of discussion , nothing is persoanl .
                                                                           Yousafzai
                           

[Spogmai]

Abdul jabara everyone know's that qadyani's are kafir and any who follow him as you have disassociated your self from him and made yourself clear that the person you are reffering to is another person and not the mirza ghulam ahmad qadyani then i appologise for the misunderstanding but lets find out who this person pervez is and was he following in the same footsteps of the qadyani as i will have to find out myself i hope spogmai will enlighten us.

Nikpekhela,

I wouldn't blame you for confusing the two because of the resemblence in their names, besides, both shared same teacher. Qadiani claimed he was a prophet, Parvez and his followers are munkar-ul-hadeeth.

Spogmai

[Yousafzai98]

Nikpekhela,

I wouldn't blame you for confusing the two because of the resemblence in their names, besides, both shared same teacher. Qadiani claimed he was a prophet, Parvez and his followers are munkar-ul-hadeeth.

Spogmai

     Salam Spogmai
 
           Thank you for sharing information with us regarding Pervez and quadyani . Well Nikpekhel bro is then right . as you said Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadyani claimed he was prophet , so he is a kafir thats clear and no question about that .

 Now the other one Perviz you said he is Munkirul Hadeeth,
 If some one doesnt belive in Hadiths he is also a kafir , coz in Quran Allahs says "
 " Follow Allah and His Messeneger" so if some one is not follwing Allah,s Messenger and doesnt belive in hadeets, what else could u call them except a kafir ?

 Now its clear that both Perviz and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadyani are kafir .

                 I am not intersted in their faith  relegion or some thing but just want to solve the problem coz Nikpekhe and Jabbar Mian were confused about them , so just for the sake of removing the confusion i wrote here .

                                                                 Yousafzai

[Pukhtun*]

jazakAllah spogmai for the research,and thanks brother yousufzai98 for being concerned i dont have any words at the moment to discribe such a person but Allah has created the whole world from nothing for the sake of our Beloved Prophet Muhammad(saw) and if it wasnt for him(saw) Allah would not have created any of us or this world, Allah revealed the Holy Quran through him(saw)and through him(saw) Allah has revealed to us the hadith without which Islam would not be a complete religion and the correct interpritation and tafseer of the Holy Quran would not be known,if a person denies the hadith that would mean that such a person is trying to change the meaning of the Holy Quran also,such fasaad we cannot accept!

[Pukhtun*]

http://hadith.topcities.com/consensus.htm  i have just done a bit of research and i want every one to read this then we say what we have to say.

[Spogmai]

Jabbar Mian,

Now it doesn't surprise me why you were insulting all the Mullahs (the heirs of the Prophet) as they were all one voice to call Ghulam Ahmed Parvez one among Ulema-e-Su. Your hatred for them is understandable.

Your so called jewels/favorites (Sir Syed, Jinnah, Parvez) were all shred to bits on this forum.

As for your hate for Pakhtuns and Pakhtun land, unfortunately, they are the peoples to whom things have happened, rather than the source of ideas and techniques which have changed life elsewhere. Even the most important changes in Pakhtun history have been produced by forces working from the outside. Rest they are simple, considerate and peace-loving people and they should be adored as thus.

Guess high time to become Ta'ib. Allah is all Forgiving.

Spogmai

[Yousafzai98]

http://hadith.topcities.com/consensus.htm  i have just done a bit of research and i want every one to read this then we say what we have to say.

  Slaam
            Brother Nikpekhel thanks alot for the link and Jazakallah , I read the link and there is no difference between Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Quadyani and Pervez , both are same Quadyanies. there is no doubt about that .full stop. discussion about them is over .

        This topic was about some thing else , now come to the point or I will merge this topic with another in Islam section undr the thread " Are quadyanies kafir? " .

               Sorry if i have hurted some one in anyway but its discussion and in relegious discussion emotions run high , once again sorry if some one hurted .

    To Brother Jabbar Mian: I respect your intellectual thinking and your love for Islam and Pakistan .        

                  May Allah guide us on right path .amin

                                                              Yousafzai

[Yousafzai]

Jabbar Mian zaka kho darta mong we chi be zaya ma chaghega. Kho ta hom Asman pa sar raghastai woo. By all ups & down I personally like people like you on this forum, at least for exchanging ideas.... Because I believe you have your's and Mine is mine.

[jabbar mian]

I don,t want to waste my time on this "takfeer business"..the list which Nikphekhel Presented..most of these people declared each other Kafirs...Doctor Israr ( former member Jamaat Islami)recently proved from Quran that Ghutama Buddha is mentioned in Quran as a good person..these people declared him and Allama Iqbal as Kafir...and Allama mentioned about "do waqt kay imam" ( Imams for two prayers)..they declared Faiz as kafir...they declared almost every body as kafir....are they well wishers of the ummah of holy prophet(pbuh)...??
Nikpehkhel and politician Spogmai can spend their whole lives to declare and prove people Kafirs, I don,t have this much arrogance (takabur) and boldness to declare some one Kafir..only Allah knows who is good and who is bad....

Coming to the logic of Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz...he was the first person who knocked down Qadianis..with the help of Quran.

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was a famous Ahle hadith scholar of his times...various ahadiths mentioned about the arrival of Mahdi and Maseeh , and he proved that he was the promised Mahdi and Maseeh...villages and villages of Punjab and India accepted his claims..and various Khans of Peshawar, Charsadda, Tungi and Mardan accepted him as  Mahdi and Maseeh...because according to Ahadiths time was ripe for some body to show up...hence his claims were accepted...right now Qadianis are the most organised with 24 hours MTA ( Muslim Television Ahmadiyya)..and budget of millions of Dollars...

Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz ( known as Ahle Quran)...was the first scholar to POINT OUT THAT THERE IS NO MENTION OF THE ADVENT OF MAHDI AND MASEEH IN THE HOLY QURAN....and AHADITHS WERE COMPILED SEVERAL HUNDRED YEARS AFTER THE PROPHET (PBUH)...and SHIAHS ADDED THIS CONCEPT OF MAHDI IN THE MUSLIM FAITH....

PERVAIZ added that Quran is the last book and no more "wahi" will come after it, and Muslims have to work for themselves in the light of Holy Quran...and NO MAHDI WILL COME FOR THEM AND SOLVE THEIR PROBLEMS....

He told that realistic and scientific approach will rescue us..and superstitions and helplessness will not change our situation...

During Times of President General Ayub Khan, Pakistan was growing very fast ..and Pakistan was known as ASIAN TIGER....

It was because of the secular and scientific approach which Government of Pakistan adopted under the guidelines of PERVAIZ.....

Gen.Ziaulhaq was a son of a Imam masjid ( jummat mullah) of Peshawar, his approach was altogether different..he encouraged opening of madrassas every where..and now Pakistan has been bitten by the snakes of intolerance, takfeer, greed of feudal lords,...lies, hypocricy...etc.....etc...

I myself believe in Ahadiths and Sunnah, but I like the Quranic approach of Ghulam Ahmad Pervaiz.....as Qadianis always win from Mullahs, and Qadianis prove themselves right from Ahadiths....

but they always avoid and runaway from a follower of Pervaiz, which are known as Ahle Quran....as Quran says nothing about the arrival of Mahdi..and Maseeh...Quran says that "deen e Islam" has been completed,.... hence closing doors for any further addition or interpretation....Allama Iqbal also had similar thoughts ....Allama said that not just talking like Mullah but Scientific Islamic teachings need to applied Practically..."mujahid ki adhan oor..Mullah ki adhan oor"..

wassallam

[changul]

YZ98, Salamalaikum

Very good thread this was, but its title is totally wrong. Great Ulamaa have given their verdict already that Qadyanis are out of Islam and hence are Kuffaar.  Rather worse. They are like Hypocrites, and indeed are.  Otherwise the thread was so informative.  I shall inshAllah write on it later.

[Yousafzai98]

Salam

Changul sab if some is not muslim by the way , then what should we call him ? if not kafir then what ? if we call him a non muslim it also means kafir   and they call themselves a sect of islam thats why i asked are they kafir ? so i think there is nothing wrong with the title .

and yes its informative thread but a bit controvercial as well, anyhow looking forward to your participation changul sab .

                           May Allah guide us on right path .

                          Yousafzai

[Badal]

Aslam o Alikum !

this is my 2nd day i m reading this topic from the 1st line to the end ..i really proud to have like " YOUSAFZAI" and i Salute him aor da sta Hosali tha salam ..... really you kickedout all kaffir and they watakhtidal.. well chi Rishtya ta hisok huum nashii tingidai...you cleard everything and answerd them by quran and ahdith ao der der ombarik sha ta ogatala...

my openion regarding this topic is that Qadianis are kafir and who don't accept them kafir they are also kafir..fullstop nothing else

wassalam

[deobandi]

Audio Bayans on Qadianis Mirza Sahib http://www.tauheed-sunnat.com/a/downloads-cat16.html